Why in the hell? Why in the hell would we want more than one partner? Let's talk about it being choices, shall we? Obviously being polyamory is a polyamorous is a choice, obviously. I'm going to blame my ADHD on this one. Oh, yeah? One is not good. I need lots of options. Welcome to the Poly Pathways podcast, helping you create paths for practical polyamory. Your hosts are Kat and Doc. We're glad you're here. Welcome back to the next episode of the Poly Pathways podcast. We are always so grateful for you being in this room with us and listening to us talk about all the fun topics around being polyamorous and being traditionally not monogamous. Today we are talking about one of the more common combos that you see. A lot of times when you're talking about polyamory, you talk about triads and throuples because they're the most visible and pop culture. So we're talking about hinges, what it means to be a hinge, how to navigate as a hinge, and what a hinge even is. So bringing out my textbook here. Textbook hinge definition is a person who is romantically or sexually involved with two partners who are not involved with each other. Think of it like the center point of the letter V. The hinge is the point where the two lines eight, and the other partners are at the ends of those lines. So book hinge, got it. This is a common role for people to play because oftentimes people have two relationships or one person is polyamorous and the other ones are monogamous, and you end up with these, the structures, or B relationships. But that central role is very involved in managing communiKations, emotional balance, and the relationship dynamic. between their two partners, because even though those two partners may not be involved with each other, they are both involved with the same person, and there's things that come up as part of that. So they are really a triangle, but they're not connected on that last point. So we're going to look at how hinges look in relationships, the work of being a hinge, some stressors that come along with being a hinge, the labor is involved, the joys, and some considerations. if you are a hinge or have a hinge or have done in hinge-style relationships in the past. Hinge is always an interesting concept to me because I like the metaphor of the hinge because it is movable, right? There are relationships that are fluid and they're dynamic and they move back and forth. And so this idea of it being a hinge and somewhat flexible is really interesting. But a lot of people sometimes think about hinges as in different visual metaphor. as they think about it like a sun in the solar system with multiple planets that are circling them so they have the planets being their partners. I think that's really interesting especially as we talk about how hinges are not really just about one person but multiple people within a relationship could be a hinge. A nucleus of an atom or just this sort of this sort of kind of center of multiple things that are moving around. The reality is that a hinge is really just kind of the center of gravity for your own pollicule. And while your partner may have another partner and they serve as a hinge or a sun or a nucleus or glue to their follicle within yours, you in fact are the hinge. And so for a lot of us, we are hinges, whether we maybe consider ourselves a hinge or not, if we're in a pollicule that maybe I'm dating multiple people and they're dating multiple people. Does that mean that I'm the hinge for all of those relationships? Hell no. And thank goodness that I'm not, because that's a lot of work to do. Being a hinge in a relationship is challenging. But we really want to think about hinges personally. How am I a hinge? But also what it means to be a hinge maybe for our partner, especially if we're not presently dating someone else or we have no interest in dating someone else like your situation Kat where you have two monogamous partners and you are the hinge and they aren't hinges where in the past. I've been a hinge with partners and they've had other partners in which they were hinged. Maybe not everyone considered themselves in that role, but anyone can be a hinge between their partners and within their other relationships. And that takes a lot of work, as we've talked about in polyamory, right? There's a lot of communication, a lot of work that goes into making sure that these relationships are working well. for you and not taking away from you. Yeah, I actually really like the nucleus or the sun metaphor. Like, I think that's a really strong one because we often talk about polyamorous relationships in terms of like constellations, right? So to say with the solar system theme, I've actually been the sun in a relationship before where I had, you know, two monogamous partners and then I had another partner who was not monogamous and then their constellation that extended beyond me. And I kind of put it into terms that you might understand if the space metaphor is lost on you is think about being, you know, a mom or a matriarch or a patriarch or somebody that's central in a family, right? Most families, there's one person that's kind of, I would say, the nucleus of that family, right? And that person is responsible for a lot of the coordination and the emotional labor and all the stuff that happens in that family. Like it's often a mom, not to genderize it, but it is often like a mom. And you'll hear moms say things like, oh, I've touched out. Like, you know, they are overwhelmed by the experience of having to manage everybody in their family, right? You have to be in charge the kids, the other partners, the grandparents, the aunts, the uncles, or whatever. So it's similar in that way that the emotional labor of being everyone's anchor point and being that center nucleus, that son of everyone's constellation. can be very challenging, especially if you are hinged to monogamous partners like myself, because you are their sole source of romantic relationship. You might be their most trusted advisor. You might be the person that is their, quote, unquote, other half, if you want to take it back to a terrible term that I don't like. They're putting you at the center of their universe, so it's difficult to be the center of multiple people's universe in that way. I think there's a lot of differences between how women hinge and how men hinge, which we're going to get into a little bit later. But I want to really spotlight that the emotional labor of constantly dealing with everybody's triangulation of insecurities, envisies, and all that kind of stuff is really a lot for a hinge. And I don't think it's something that's said out loud quite enough. Like we talk about communication and we talk about being upfront with your partners. But as the hinge, I almost feel like there is. more of an emphasis on having to do more management and carry the weight of kind of your group of people. And in times when everybody's going through everything at the same time, that can be a lot. Thank you for saying that. I think that that's true. I don't think we talk about hinging enough as what it means to be at the center of multiple relationships and in the labor, the hidden discussions, the unspoken things and work that needs to be done. I think that it's probably more likely that that comes out in elevations in tone, in conflict where we're like, you don't know what it's like to be in this place and you don't know what it's like to feel what I'm feeling. In those moments where we've kind of lost control of the situation a little bit more than maybe we want to, but being able to talk about our feelings as a hinge partner, whether you're in a relationship with people who are monogamous or whether they're also hinges in their relationship, I think can build some empathy between the partners and help us refocus on the value of the relationship versus the short-term troubles or traumas or dramas or llamas that we're experiencing. The drama llamas. Yeah. I think that weight is really huge. I had an experience where I was going through some stuff at work. My partner was going through some stuff in his life. And then my other partner was going through, you know, some health stuff and some mental health stuff. And that moment where all of us were in crisis or some form of crisis at the same time. And I feel like not to discount what they were feeling because I'm sure they felt terrible, but they were stressed for themselves and for me. And then I was stressed for myself, for each of them individually, and then for our unit as a whole. And I felt like I was carrying additional weight from just being at the center of that and feeling everybody's stress at the same time. I think there's a lot of those common stressors that occur often, but having them all happen at once really put a sharp point on it for me, that being a hinge can sometimes be, you know, pretty vapor in. And good for you for sticking it through to recognize that there are a lot of common stressors and when we're all experiencing with every partner in the relationship is experiencing a lot of heavy-duty stuff in their life, that that can become a flashpoint within the relationship. There are stressors, but there are joys as well. And we'll talk about that in a minute. Right now, I think most people who are listening are probably thinking themselves, oh my gosh, I'm a hinge and there's so much work to be done. And I don't want to talk about this in terms of we're quote-unquote, managing our partners as if they were employees or we're managing them as if they were bad children. There's no such thing as kind of the good one and the bad one. and that sort of insecurity mindset doesn't actually work. There are, however, a lot of stressors that can easily happen as part of multiple relationships in which you are the center of things. So a couple of the big ones, I think. There's probably a lot of them. And if you're a hinge or you're a part of a relationship where you have a hinge and you're seeing stressors that we don't talk about, absolutely drop us a comment. Let us know what you're facing. Not just what you're facing, but how are you facing it? and what are you doing? Because we all want to learn about that more and more. And Kat and I both have having hinge in our background, we're here to learn to. So I think the easy one to come up with is burnout, saturation, right? That point of I'm in multiple relationships. That's, even if it's the good things, multiple dates, multiple timelines, multiple calendar appointments, multiple things that are going on in their life. Maybe your partners have children or families or. obligations and you're part of that and you're just now you're adding to that you know your regular workload your personal well-being your healthiness your happiness what you want to get out of things and you start to get into that kind of burnout saturation exhaustion feeling of being a hinge and being able to talk about that with your partner is like i'm really overwhelmed right now I need a moment for myself can be really overwhelming when you're part of multiple relationships and you're at the center of those. If you're at the nucleus of a lot of relationships, taking time for yourself sometimes can feel like you're letting your partners down when in reality what you're doing is you're asking for your partners to show up for you. Yeah, I think it's incredibly important to make time for yourself, especially if you're in the hinge because you're constantly in the give and take and the push and full with all these other relationships. And the relationship to yourself is still the most important relationship that you should have in your life. So you have to make time to step back and recharge your own batteries. I have a wonderful yoga teacher who says you can't pour from an empty cup. So you always got to go back and make sure that you're refilling your cup in whatever way you need to before re-engaging with all your other partners. Yeah. And that really does lead to that feeling of being split between two partners, almost as if there's a split personality, especially because each relationship is its own relationship and you're not all within a relationship together. You can sometimes feel like you're being split between these partners and that very much can lead to that place of I'm no longer who I am. I'm no longer myself here and I'm dealing with person A and person B and C or D or however your molecule looks. Yeah, there's a lot of times you'll bring out different parts of your personality for each person, right? So you can feel with one partner and be slightly different than you would with another partner, right? Maybe one partner brings out the free, loving, caregiving, whatever, whatever, and the other partner brings out the more serious intellectual side, right? So you might feel very split personality if your partner bring out different sides of you. Along the lines of those things is also this idea that you become the go-between for the partners, especially if those partners are disconnected. they choose to be disconnected or you made a decision to keep them separated, you become the go-between, between these partners. You're constantly trying to, and we'll talk a little bit more about some strategies here, but you're constantly trying to advocate for yourself and this other relationship with your other relationships or relationship or relationships. You're just this kind of go-between. And that's also what's very much a stressor like, oh, I've got to go tell person B about this thing with person A or you're making plans with person A and this is now I've got to go talk to person B about things and there are certainly lots of tools to alleviate that stress common calendars, group chats, things like that but that being that go-between can be exhausting because at least for me as a go-between, I'm thinking about timing a lot. When is the best time to tell this person about this change or about this event or about this situation? Because they themselves might be going through something in their life. They may be overwhelmed. They may not be available. And so trying to pick the best time, sometimes for me, is a mental exercise that is exhausting. And along with that makes sense, which is constant communication. You're constantly in communication with both of your partners about what's going on. If trying to balance equity, there too, it might be just like, I got to tell the same good day story or the same bad day story or the same good feeling story or the same troublesome story with two people and three people and listen to their advice or listen to their response to that. And that can be overwhelming too. I tend to shut that down. Getting multiple perspectives can be overwhelming and that can also lead to some stress. Another big stressor, and one of the big things that I've experienced as a hinge is both feeling comparison and managing comparison. And one of the piece of advice I got from, actually from my oldest child, which was that comparison is the thief of joy. And when you're trying to manage those feelings of comparison or envy or jealousies within your polycule, within your hinge relationships, that's what you're managing is that someone's joy seems to be or is perceived to be being taken away from them. When in reality it's not, it's just that comparison is the thief of joy. Doc, are you talking about comparing, you're comparing your partners to each other and taking away from your experience with them? Or are you talking about your partners comparing your experience with them versus the experience you might be having with your other partner? It is, it is all of both. Like, it is, it is a both, it is a both and it is not a, it is not an either or. Comparison happens in these hinge relationships in lots of ways. As a hinge, I might be comparing partnerate. to partner B saying, oh, I really wish partner A would do more of what partner B does, or I wish partner B would do less of what partner A does. So there's that because they are different relationships, but let's be honest about ourselves. We do tend to gravitate towards people who are of our ilk, of our type, of our category. And so we are going to find similarities. And that's true of all human beings, no matter who we've met or who we're in relationship, of what there's going to be there's going to be overlaps and similarities and that's okay. So, yeah, as a hinge, there is that sense of feeling like you're comparing partners to each other. And that is a hard train to stop when you're on that train, especially if you've got some not so great feelings going on or even some really great feelings happening, right? It's just kind of either ends of the spectrum or when that feeling of comparing partners to each other in your own head can be overwhelming. And here I thought I did such a great job of choosing partners that were different from each other because at surface level, they appeared very different. Only for me to later find out, but they're very similar. And I laugh about that all the time because I've caught myself in that trap of being like, well, they're both going to feel the same way about a situation. And that comparison in my head of like, well, I'm not even going to bring this up because they're going to get upset about it. And then they surprise me. So I don't like the whole comparison thing because we should treat everybody as they are individuals and need different things and not make assumptions on their behalf, right? Right. That is kind of one of those traps of comparison is making assumptions for a current partner or a future partner based on an experience you had with another partner. And I think that carries over a lot for people who've had bad relationships as well. Like you're assuming everyone's going to hurt you or something like that because you had that experience with someone else. Yeah, that's very much true. And that's not just advice for polyamory or even hinge relationships, right? That notion of past relationship trauma and past relationship hurts and bad things that have happened, bad behaviors. That is not your current partner's problem. If you're experiencing that, if your partner is pushed back on you and said, hey, that's not me. You need to stop comparing me to these past people or to this other person. Like, you need to set back and you need to accept that. You need to accept that. as their reflection of what you're doing and go get maybe a therapist to help you. In fact, just get a therapist to help you, not even maybe just get one to help you. Ask you a specific question. Well, the interesting part as that pertains to polyamory is that you can be having multiple relationships and potentially escalations and de-escalations at the same time. So you could be receiving, you know, a bad relationship experience from one of your partners while the other ones are going great. And it's important to have that mental, I think, lane in your head of like, I'm not going to carry over what's happening in my other relationship into my other relationship through comparison or even just bringing that over. Very much, though, right? And so that's part, that gets us into kind of how do you manage comparison? Because as your hinge, your partners are absolutely going to see relationship A is not going as well right now as relationship B is going. Or maybe there's just no insight into relationship B because you're keeping things. things separated maybe to manage an escalation or de-escalation or whatever it might be. And so now you're managing that comparison because, again, it is that thief of joy. It's that, you know, relationship A is looking at relationship B going, you seem so happy over in relationship B, like what the hell is happening? Why is everything falling apart over here? And especially if you're traumatized and just unmanaged mental illness, you're going to explode that feeling in your head. And as a hinge partner, that's overwhelming to manage to say, these things are separate. Our issues are our issues. And we can deal with those separately. Yeah, especially if you're in the thurrows of new relationship energy, right? So you're going to have a completely different experience with this other person. And the hinge has to manage, you know, not being overwhelmed by that new relationship energy. And, and also managing the existing partner, who's going to feel some kind of way about it, right? Because maybe they're making comparisons. And you can't really change that for them. But you still, as the hinge, have to manage, like, okay, I'm just being absolutely obnoxious with my NRE. But I also have to take care of my partner who's probably feeling some kind of way about it. That's right. And new relationships, I think, bring an interesting stressor to being a hinge as well because this new person doesn't not know what your existing relationship looks like, feels like the history, the things you've been through, the values that you're sharing necessarily, I'm sure you're communicating about it because, again, that constant communication should be happening. But the reality is that sometimes we just don't say things that we just don't say things that we've taken as granted or taken as second nature within the relationship. I think that that new relationship aspect also brings something into a stressor into being a hinge as well, especially because that new person doesn't have a lot with your existing relationship. They don't know what's going on. They don't know your history. They don't know your values. They don't know the things that you've worked through. And the things that you're working towards necessarily because they just don't have the time in relationship with you to know those things. The problem sometimes there can become that within that NRE is that that NRE makes you greedy and makes you want to absorb everything about that person, especially if you're emotionally immature and you just want to just suck them into your life and maybe isolate them from, I just don't want this person to feel bad or feel hurt. Of course you don't. Let them manage themselves. But that can become a stressor because they really don't know shit from Shinola within your existing relationship. And their advice should be taken as that. Uneducated, ill-informed, misinformed probably. And certainly, like, it's important that sometimes these outside perspectives can help us feel more about who we should be in a relationship, how we should be loved, where we should be going. But the problem can become that these partners, especially if they're disconnected, can become adversarial and acrimonious. And they can start to feed you with, oh, maybe this shouldn't be happening. And now, as a hinge to two partners, well, now you've got to manage all of that. there's got to be a conversation about where is the, where, where, where are your kind of guardrails here around our relationship? Yeah, I think there's a lot of, I would say pressure that can come from your partners in a hinge relationship, right? There's a lot of things. And, you know, I think this goes back to the difference between men and men being a hinge and women being a hinge is, I think men, especially women, if you want to say the social thing, like women are catty, women are catty. They talk about other ways. women, which is not necessarily true, but I think women communicate differently and are more likely to try to pick apart other new partnerships and new relationships a lot quicker than men are and try to kind of almost give into that gossip-like thing, which is something for the hinge to manage. But we have to remember that adding a new partner is a major life change, right? Any major life change is going to come with friction for hinges because it's not just upsetting you, it's upsetting kind of the entire apple cart. Exactly. I think that, I don't know that it's necessarily a gender difference, though there are, I think, probably gender differences, but I think it's probably more of an emotional maturity difference. If you're not very emotionally mature and you give into gossip and rumoring and unsolicited advice and in kivetching and you can't manage your own feelings and you have to go running to your other partner crying about how things are going, then you're probably, probably not ready for multiple relationships, to be honest. And so I think that, yeah, those major life changes, I think being a hinge requires a degree of emotional maturity. If you're feeling a little bit emotionally immature or you're stressing, maybe this is a time to consider, you know, being probably without being a hinge, I guess. But stressors are part of it. I think being a hinge, I also think that being a hinge, well, stressful is also really joyous. and there can be, when working, can really add a tremendous amount to your life in amazing ways, which is why that's not the reason we're polyamorous, but it's one of the things we talk as polyamorous people. It's like that love is an unlimited resource. And when you're a hinge and it's working, man, you feel it. Yeah. So now that we've become completely unhinged about common stressors that occur, let's talk about some of those stories because it is an all doom and gloom. The hinge is actually pretty amazing. Absolutely. Yes. When things are going well, you get support, happiness, shared experiences. One of my favorite hinge moments that I experienced with my little pollucule, it was I was at an amusement park with my bollucule, and I was feeling kind of burnt out, and I was tired. And, you know, my husband was also feeling a little tired, and, you know, my other partner stepped in, stepped up, and absolutely rolled in there, scooped up my kids, took them on roller coasters, and we got a minute to go back. And I felt like that was such a beautiful Hinge moment where he recognized not only that I was feeling run down, but also that my husband was feeling run down. So together, we had a lot of those shared uplifting things that can happen in Hinge, right? So I would say my favorite callout of a joy of being Hinge is similar to the joy that you experience from being polyamorous, you get to experience multiple types of meaningful, unique relationships with more than one partner and really get a level of trust that can make you feel very validated, right? So it's not just like having one best friend, it's like having multiple best friends. And, you know, that makes you feel good. It makes you feel like, I don't want to say, like powerful, but it makes you feel very validated as a human that not only are you worthy of love, which of course you are, but you're worthy of multiple people's trust at the same time. And not that you don't see it in yourself, but someone else saw it in you. That's really validating, right? It's really nice to know that there's, you know, several people in your circle that love you and trust you enough to have this relationship with you for all the stresses and things that come with it. Like, that's super powerful. Another great byproduct, I think, of being in a hitch relationship is the ability to to build emotional stability. So you are the stabilizing force across your web, your constellation, whatever you want to call it. And that validates yourself worth a lot to be able to say I am strong enough to be the hinge. Even on days when you don't feel strong enough to be the hinge, you are, you are. And that is really validating to know that I am strong. I can stand on my two feet and I can be the support system for other people when they need me. I agree with that entirely. So there was a time over the last year that I was having a really stressful family situation evolve and just absolutely getting called out. It was bringing up every childhood drama, every fight I've ever had with my parents, every insecurity I had around it. It was textbook nonsense. And when I was feeling at my very lowest, my partner was able to say, to reflect back to me, hey, you are managing multiple successful romantic relationships right now. I know you're feeling a little unhinged right now. I know you're feeling unstable right now. I know that the world is super wobbly right now. But I want you to look at the broader perspective because these multiple loving relationships care about you, love you, value you, cherish you. And that is a reflection of who you are. And so that was one of the highest points of being a hinge partner was having one of my partners explain that to me not only in support of me, but in support of my other relationship that existed. Yeah, I think having that, I keep saying validation, but just knowing that those people are in your corner and able to give that back to you is so powerful. But you also give it back to them, right? you're kind of a bridge builder. And that's it turned my corporate brain on, but I think of it. And like, you know, you have the ability to foster harmony and understanding between these disconnected partners, right? You have the ability to be the glue between people who may not have come together otherwise. And in my case, it worked out, we didn't originally start out kitchen table, but it worked out that, you know, my partners are very good friends with each other now. That would not have happened without me. They would not have organically come together. they would not have found each other. They would not have become friends because they did not travel in the same circles. But I was able to build a bridge between them, and now they have a friendship because of that, in a way that is really valuable to them. So there are ways you can kind of be that bridge builder, and that feels really good, right? When two people you love come together and they have things in common, and you can kind of enjoy their experience of getting to know each other from, and not in a forcing way, but like enjoy the experience of them coming together organically. Being that bridge builder is really, really a good feeling and a really nice perk of being a hinge. The other two things that I would call out would be the skill building. We acknowledge that it's really hard and that there are a lot of pieces of it that are challenging, but as a result of that, the pressure does help you grow. You know, you are growing through the challenges that are existing within this dynamic. You're going to develop stronger communication skills. You're going to develop more empathy. You're going to develop more conflict resolution skills because they're going to have feelings that their brains in the table. And you're going to develop an ability to kind of navigate different personalities and different ways and really learn more about the people around you and how they operate and how people can be so wildly different. Everyone likes to think people are so much the same, but we're all so wildly different. And my favorite part of that is really the personal growth that I got out of it, right? Each relationship, not only am I building my skills, but I'm learning more about myself and how I love and relate to other people through the partners that I have, and especially through my hinge relationship. I have learned more about myself from this hinge relationship that I'm currently in than I probably would have ever accomplished in a monogamous relationship or even with just a single partner or different partners. It really helped me accelerate my own understanding of both myself and relationships as large. It's not to say that the trend is always, you know, grow through success and grow through perfection and grow through not making any mistakes, but often because if you have a supportive pollicule through this hinge relationship, your growth can be from learning from mistakes, learning from missteps and learning, especially if we're all responsible for our own growth. and we're actually growing and doing the work and not just saying we're growing or saying we're responsible, but we're actually doing it. We can actually hold each other to that value of a long-lasting growth and long-lasting relationship that will evolve over time. That, however, is not solely the responsibility of the hinge because we can't force people to be emotionally mature and we can't force people to want to grow and we can't force people to want. We have to identify the right people, but, you know, if they're in crisis or whatever might be happening in their life, that, you know, that growth can sometimes be a bit of elusive. You know, earlier you talked a little bit about the gender difference of, of hinging. And I thought that way, I think that's really interesting. I mean, it's obvious that you and I both have presenting gender differences. Yes. I am a female assigned at birth. I identify as a woman. That's right. And I am a male assigned at birth. and identify as a male. And so, and pretty traditional in that, in that mindset. So I think being a man in a hinge does have differences, at least from my perspective, but I'm also 100% willing to say, this isn't not a man thing. This may, you may be experiencing this as a woman. You may be experiencing this through emotional maturity. I'm not sure what it is. So I welcome your thoughts on this because this is just, I guess, my perspective as a man. and that is that we're given a little bit more leeway to be non-plussed about things, that sort of emotional neutrality and less involved in the emotions of our partners. Like, it's easier because this is how men are socialized. This is how men are socialized within society. Oftentimes, you know, you, you know, real men don't cry. Real men don't show their emotions. That is not my story. but I am at a place with my emotional maturity that I can be more neutral and can be less kind of extreme in my emotions and less absolutely hit like if I there are definitely indicators that throw me right over the edge but for the most part I think men can be viewed as emotionally more even keeled and that sometimes for partners, especially if they're not, feeling emotionally even killed either in the moment or in general in life or through that period of their life, you know, being a hinge can sometimes provide that anchor or that stability. I think that this also gets to, there's also some societal mythos around a man being in multiple relationships, especially with women. And that, you know, it's like, oh, you know, he, look at that guy, you know, he's walking around with these two women, you know, what's his deal? He must be special. He must be endowed with some created power or something in his life or, you know, whatever it is. There is some idealized nature of being a man in multiple relationships with a woman. I don't necessarily prescribe to that. I'm not walking out going to like, look at me, guys. like, woo-hoo. But. I don't want to be a baller at this point in the show. Right. Yeah, no, no. I'm not, I don't want to be a baller. I don't want to be a shot caller. I don't want to be any of those things. And, you know, most of the time, I just want to have my backpack on and be somewhere where I don't have cell phone signal. But it's like, that's truly what I'm looking for a polyamorous relationship with trees and trails at this point. some of the time. That's not true. But that there is, but with that societal mythos is also that sort of pressure to, even if it's unconscious, and I do succumb to this. Like, even if it's unconscious, right, is this pressure to put on an air of performance, an air of leadership within the polycule. And if people aren't all at the same level or they're not all in the same place within their reciprocity, that can get a lot easier. But that societal mythos of being a man with multiple relationships can sometimes lead you to this false sense of performance and leadership within your relationship. Ironically, there's also a societal mythos around how men are not good at relationships and therefore are being managed by multiple women or multiple partners in their life. And that is a distasteful, distasteful, distasteful, distasteful mint in my life. But I understand it, right? I do hear those same things. Oh, he's just a man. He doesn't really know. Or, you know, he needs, you know, whatever it might be, multiple mommies or multiple dummies or whatever you want to call him. You know, sometimes. And I think that it even extends even further, especially as you get older, you become an older man. You fall into the trap of midlife, Christ. But, um, and he, he, he, not only that, but he is, you know, he's criticized for being in multiple relationships that he's unwilling to give all of himself to one person. And so he needs to have all these, all these relationships because he can't afford a Ferrari and he can't afford a motorcycle. And so we've gone and got himself a couple of girlfriends. And this is, um, this is, this is the case. And that can be even more so the case if you're not fully present in either of those relationships or any of your relationships where your partners are feeling like maybe they're not involved in your life or they're not her. They're not represented or they're not an equal partner playing ground. That is really an interesting place to be in a relationship, hierarchical mindsets too, because as soon as maybe a new partner or another partner, starts to want a little bit more equity because they should want equity. You should want equity in your relationships, in my opinion. But as soon as that equity becomes on more displayed, that can sometimes be criticized as a threat to existing or longer-term relationships. And then, of course, right, getting back to this whole idea of, look at that lucky guy. He's just living the dream. He's got himself multiple sexual partners and they're just banging the way at the night and all that sort of stuff. Like that sort of absolutely gross heteronormative bullshit. I mean, not that that shouldn't be or couldn't be fun, but it's also not, it probably shouldn't be normal, right? It's probably not your average Tuesday, but I'm not here to kinkshame you. Like, if that's your average Tuesday, fuck yeah. Live that dream, baby. Like, good for you and good for everybody involved. If it's not, that's okay too, friend. It's okay. It's, believe me. It's okay, I'm there with you. But, you know, there is that sort of a mythos and a perception around being a man in a hinged relationship, especially with multiple people who are presenting as women. Yeah, I would say there's a lot of minimization of the emotional challenges that go along with it. So everything that we just talked about with the challenges of being a hinge, a lot of that for the men that I've seen is it's kind of downplayed. Like, it's all about the positive. It's never about the work. It's never about, you know, how much of a change. challenge it could be to be a hinge, to manage a hinge relationship. Whereas on the women's side, it's completely different. And the starkest example of this that I have is really when I came out as being polyamorous to my parents, I actually referenced someone that I grew up with that was in a polyamorous relationship. I did not clock it when I was a kid, but there was a very close friend of the family who I referred to as an uncle who basically had a wife and a girlfriend. And when I was coming out to my mom, and I remember this very historically because I was in an olive garden eating breadsticks, and I remember saying to her, I'm like, well, what about, you know, this person? I'm like, he was living with, you know, we'll call her Jenna and Susie, you know, for the longest time. And I remember they both gave eulogies at his funeral and like this was not, and this was not hidden. Like, everybody knew and it was just kind of out there and it just kind of existed. And I never really thought about it until I was an adult that that was abnormal because that was just how it was. And me. She goes, that was just how he was. That's just, you know, the way he would have been. She's like, he would have, he would have taken a go with me if he could have, blah, blah, blah. And I was like, well, why is that, why is that okay? But it's not okay for me. And the answer really was, there was this level of expectation for me as a woman that women just don't do that, right? Women just don't do that. If you do that, you're kind of a harlot, you're kind of a slut, whatever you want to do. but like for men it was a little bit different. And that kind of stuck with me as really a stark difference between the two of it. So I would say one of the main things that I notice as a woman hinge is both of my men, you know, especially monogamous men, there's expectations to manage their emotional communication on behalf of the entire relationship. So it goes back to really truly being that nucleus in a way of I'm likening to being a mom, right? Like you're in charge of everybody's relationship and everyone's happiness and you are supposed to be the one managing all of this as the hinge, but also as, you know, kind of the mothering presence in all of this relationship. And often women, it's perceived as being selfish or confusing if they maintain multiple relationships. I've heard that feedback multiple times where I'm just being selfish by having two men. and especially for my single friends who are struggling to date monogamously, they will often tout out like, oh, you're just being greedy, oh, you're just being selfish, or you're just whatever, in a negative kind of way that I have not heard, you know, as often news for men. Like it usually defaults back to that, like, lucky living the dream mentality, whereas for women, it's, oh, you're being greedy, you're being selfish, all those kind of things. But I think that really is something that I notice most as being a major different. and how it's talked about. I do perceive that sort of greediness from, aimed at men, from a, particularly when it comes from people representing as women. Yeah. They're like, oh, oh, Doc, you're being greedy. You've got all these women. Why can't she just settle down with one woman? Well, okay. So I do, I do see that. Actually, I would agree with that point. I hear it from women. I don't hear it necessarily from men. What I hear from men about women who are polyamorous is more like, oh, they're, they basically slut shame or they'll say like, oh, you just haven't picked yet. Or, you know, I'm a man that are trying to get at you. They're like, well, you just haven't met the right one yet. And you're, it's okay that you're, you're polyamorous now, but I'm going to rock your world, sweetheart. And I'm going to be the one. I've heard it in that way. But I would say that women in general tend to absorb more of the emotion. emotional labor, like soothing over the jealousies, processing feelings on behalf of other people, coordinating everybody. And that's really an internalized thing that we do as a society. You know, growing up if you're the daughter in the household, right, you're being taught in a different way than the men. And that's a society thing, right? That once you become consciously aware of it, you try to dismantle it. But societally speaking, women are trained to absorb emotional labor, I would say at a higher rate than men, and we're taught to kind of internalize that. And unfortunately, it does come out when you're in a hidden scenario where, you know, my partners would say to me, and they don't do this often because we talk about this stuff, but like both of them would be having an issue. And they'll bring it up to me and just expect me to solve the problem. And I'm like, I'll literally step back and be like, no, you guys work this out. Granted, we are kitchen table. So they have a relationship. And I'm like, you guys work this out. this actually has nothing to do with me as a hinge, as a relationship. Like, this is not actually part of my dynamics with either of you. This is you guys need to talk about this together. And it's always like, well, but he's your boyfriend or he's your husband. And I'm like, no, no, no, this is you on your friendship level. Go figure this out. I don't have to be the middleman here. And I think that is kind of where it ends up with a lot of people is they are the middleman, or the middle woman in this case, the middle woman between their partners trying to make sure everybody is getting along and happy and whatever. And, you know, that's just a lot. It's just a lot of emotional lemur. And it sucks. And we're going to talk about that in the next segment when we talk a little bit about boundaries and conflict and communication and how to manage these things that we brought up, the joys, the stressors, the stress that we're going into as having multiple partners. Thank you for being here today. Today's topic may be a bit heavy or touch on items that are similar to depression. This is your reminder that if you suspect you are experiencing depression, we encourage you to seek support from somewhere outside of just an online podcast. Seek professional help in your area or use resources such as the National Alliance on Mental Illness, NAMI.org. If you are an immediate need of support in the U.S. dial 988 for 24-7 free confidential support, you can also visit them online at 988 Lifeline.org. Always remember that feelings are temporary, you are valuable, and you are not alone. Thank you for being here, and thank you for being in our network. How do we manage different needs and expectations? especially, I'll especially say in polydebano or parallel setups where everyone has needs, everyone needs to be represented and everyone kind of needs to be responsible for their own behaviors and development. But how do we manage that as hinges kind of sitting in the middle? And I will call out that this is probably tricky and parallel relationships. So we've been using the example of the kitchen table in my case because I can just say, hey guys, go work it out. What about if you're a parallel setup where your partners really don't have communication like each other. Doc, how do you work through some of that? Well, let me tell you, it's a fucking dream. Um, you know, it is, it is difficult, especially when, especially when partners are acrimonious or when partners are going through a crisis that these kind of parallel things are happening. And it is, it can be a lot, it can be difficult. to be that sort of translator and that peacekeeper in parallel or disconnected relationships between partners. But I think the important thing, I'm going to probably just call on my own kind of value here, which is that I'm not, I am absolutely willing to accept that if people don't want to have a relationship, that they don't need to have a relationship, they also have to accept the responsibility that you are not the peacekeeper. You are not the translator. You are not the go-between for their problems with each other. So that's really important. So there's a couple of ways that I think that this works because in the past, I have had multiple relationships that were parallel. And I'm perfectly, it was perfectly happy to keep them that way. In fact, when we had tried to do anything other than parallel, it just did not work for my one partner. And so, you know, that's what that's what, that is. They can make their own choice. But I think the important thing here is to avoid kvetching or complaining about partners to each other. So you're not leaving partner A and going over to partner B's place and be like, you're never going to guess what I had to fucking experience there. That has been a huge boundary in my relationship from the beginning for any, any of my partners is we do not partner bash and we don't talk about the other partners. Because I feel like that would, if I had done that in the beginning, it would have ruined any chance that they had a relationship ever, but it's just never productive, right? Even though that's your vault and you want to trust that person, partner bashing is never, never, never, never a good idea. Yeah, same. And it is, and it is a monormative behavior that it's easy to slip into. You're having an obviously bad day. Your partner notices it and says, what's going on? Is everything all right? Oh, this is going on and that's going on. I've got it managed, but, you know, that's still part of it. And so I think partner bashing is also not allowing for partners to bash one of, bash the other. That is also a poison pill within a hinge relationship because it adds not just an intensity, but now you've got a whole different level of conflict that you need to manage, especially if you're in a relationship with someone who cannot kind of get past some of that partner bashing that maybe they've done in the past or maybe they've perceived has been done with them. So not allowing, not allowing for establishing expectations with both of your partners. It's like, look, partner B wants to be parallel right now. This relationship is separate of ours. We do not talk about or bash that person because you do not know that person and you are not relationship with that person. It's my relationship with them. We talk about our stuff. So I think that's really important. Also understanding that, and understanding, but also setting the expectation that not every relationship needs to look exactly like the relationship that you're in with that person. So person B's relationship with me may look very different from person A's relationship with me. Maybe one is, you know, hypersexual, maybe one is hyper-romantic, maybe one is hyper-supportive. It doesn't matter. The point is that it is a separate relationship. And so they don't need to look like one another. And catching that in conversation is sometimes difficult because they're like, oh, this shouldn't be happening or this shouldn't be happening. And you should be doing this and you should be doing that Partner A has a perception of who you are within a relationship that they think is universal and it is not. I think the other thing is that you need to hold your expectations with your partner. So this is the idea of privacy and conversations going back to that. So partner bashing, vetching, there is a difference between privacy and secrecy, but some things just are not the other partner's business. So what happens on a date? What happens after the date? What happens when you're not wearing clothes? What happens when you're wearing spicy clothes? These things are not your business. And so they do not need to be part of the conversation. And then this is the one thing I think that I struggle with and I have struggled with in the past, have good ideas about how to work on the future and have good direction with that. And that is to encourage direct communication and growth between your partners. If they're parallel, if they're just garden party, if they can't get along, if they're disconnected in some way, encouraging them to communicate directly, to grow, to talk about these things, help them provide that perspective of, you know, help them get perspective on multiple relationships and then work with a therapist on that. So again, you're not the go-between. You're not your therapist. You're not the triangulator of communication because if you know anything about communication and conflict, you know the triangulation. doesn't work ever. So when you repeat that, it doesn't work ever. Don't force your hands to be the triangulator of your communication. If you have something or an issue with that other person, you know what? Be emotionally mature. Be an adult and go and deal with that issue. And so as a hinge, you need to supportively encourage that. Like, hey, this conversation isn't going to be a big deal. or whatever it might be or even broker it, but allow for that conversation to take place. So again, yeah, they're parallel or disconnected, but trying to find that navigable way because you're going to misinterpret stuff as a hinge a lot, a lot. Yeah, I really appreciate setting separate boundaries and separate agreements between my hinge partners. We recently had to revisit, I think we just recorded the episode about comments and things like that and about how I was renegotiating some of those boundaries and what those things looked like. And I left space for each of those boundary communications to happen separately. I broached the topic when we were all together and I said, I'm going to individually have a conversation with each of you about this later, so that they had room to have their own feelings and their own thoughts and their own concerns about each of those things. And I kept each of their privacy, you know, for those conversations to take place so that they could feel safe with me. and not like everything that they said to me was going to get back to that other partner. I think that's a boundary that is really important, especially I hear about couples that are like, oh, my phone is open. I always check the phone and I can see all messages and things like that. Like you owe your partner's safety and trust and privacy, and that's what makes a healthy communication. So having those boundaries around, you know, how you're going to spend your time together, how the energy is going to look like. and it might not be equal, right? It might be good partner. And I've been bitten by that by a partner taking our private moments to their other partner and just being inappropriate about that. And that's, it's something that could have been worked through. But honestly, like, that's, that's a big problem. Right. Especially if your partners have other partners, like my partner's both monogamous. But if you have a partner, so when I was dating, my ex-girlfriend, you know, if I had shared things with her and then she went and told her all then, who then went and told her other, like, it just goes beyond that. And I think it is really important to have boundaries around those time and even boundaries around your time together. Like, if I'm with you, I'm with you, I'm not going to be in communication with my other partners, you know, having set protocol for emergencies if there's kids involved. I have very strong feelings on what constitutes an emergency in a relationship, which is not the same as a lot of parents. Parents are like, I have to always be plugged in because my kids might. And in my head, I'm like, if you're not comfortable leaving your kids with somebody and have to be available for every little thing, why are you leaving your kids with them? Yeah, you should have just left them on their own. Right. But yeah, you and I agree. You and I agree around that, that whole nonsense of things. Yeah. There are times for emergencies where it does act mean a lot, right? So like when I was out on a date with my boyfriend and my husband literally ruptured his appendix, like that's a genuine emergency. Like, hey, I know you're out, but I need to go to the hospital. Like, those are emergency. Yeah, that's a different thing all together. But yeah, that notion of that notion of kind of taking, and this is also something as a hinge you need to work around too. It's like not allowing your partners to bring their other partner's stuff to you. I'm not interested in that. That's not my concern. That's not, these are the things that I've said. I'm not interested in their fetishes. I'm not interested in things you find shameful or things you find weird in that relationship. That is your relationship and I encourage you to deal with that directly with your other partner. Yeah. And I think that's a really good segue into not dictating what your other partners or your metamorphic can and cannot do, right? in the boundaries communication that you have as a hinge, you often get, especially if your, if your other partners don't have other partners or they are monogamous, you don't want to get into the situation where they're like, well, well, we don't have sex on Sundays, so you can't have sex on Sundays with the other partners. That is not good boundaries. Those are not good, even if people agree to them. I often hear this like, well, this was our agreement. That doesn't mean it's right to put those types of restrictions on your other partner. So I think it's very important to know that every relationship is different. And it is between two people. It's between you and your partner and other people having demands and boundaries. My boundaries are in quotes here. Boundaries around what you can do with that other partner and how that relationship is developing. Those are not the types of boundaries we're talking about. We're talking about the boundaries that you have between making sure that both of your partners feel valued and safe as a hinge. You owe them the safety of that relationship as the hinge to not violate their trust by cross-pollinating those relationships, even if they're friends. This is especially true when partners don't or they cannot interact together, that you need to maintain these, you need to maintain these individual relationships. Ultimately, that's what polyamory is. Yeah, we're in multiple relationships. We're in multiple relationships. That relationship is plural. That means that there are multiple individual relationships gathered together. Now, there may be aspects like in your relationship because your partners are friends and your KTP, but there are aspects of your relationship with partner one and partner two that are private and are your own. And so there is also this notion of when things kind of get out of control, when partners don't or they can't interact. At some point, as the hinge, you need to be able to surrender and say, I've done all of the good that I can do to try to overcome your fluid, changing, never-ending, ongoing, fixed, rigid inability to grow around this or inability to move forward around this. This sort of life-sentencing that some partners give each other is one poor shit, but too unjust. But, you know, I think when you get to a place where metamores can't or they don't interact, Parallel is a perfectly wonderful solution to that to keep them in their own relationships, maintain them, make sure that you're able to reassure and assure and secure each of the relationships. I think that can work really good, provided both partners are willing to accept parallel as parallel and not make parallel a problem. And that can sometimes happen. And when that happens, it's important as a hinge that you remember to not triangulate, stop being the go-between, encourage them either to talk with their therapists or to talk with their therapist or maybe a team of therapists or consider a therapist. I don't know if we've mentioned the therapist as an option here, but that would be a good option. And ultimately, at the end of it, it becomes the decision of those individual partners to make their choice, to stay, to go, to grow, to adapt, to value the relationship they have with you as their partner and how they want that to go. But if they're looking at your other relationship and they just cannot for themselves, that is about them. It is not about you. Try to avoid being the go-between, even if you have parallel, like, don't let yourself become the dumping ground, even though you're at the bottom of that V, you're not the dumping ground, all the shit doesn't have to roll downhill into you where he can absorb it. A hundred percent. 100%. It is how fucking unfair to your partner. Yeah, because then you're not going to be your best self for any of those relationships because you're going to merit yourself under the weight of them. So enough with the doom and gloom. Our last section really want to talk about joy, events, and some growth within it. So we'll be right back. Need to juggle multiple priorities, big goals, and a pack schedule? Of course you do. Motion is the answer. The Smart AI Calendar app automatically schedules your tasks for when you have time to boost productivity. So whether you're balancing work, family, or side hustle, motion helps you stay organized by automating your to do list and scheduling around your life. It is the secret weapon for anyone chasing success across jobs, responsibilities, or relationships. Click the link in the show notes to discover how motion can help you tearing chaos into clarity. How do you handle important events, holidays, weddings, family stuff without defaulting to hierarchy? I will say this is infinitely easier if your partners get along and it's kitchen table and all that kind of stuff. But I often hear stories about people fighting over who gets to go to the wedding, who gets to show up for you during family events. Holidays are particularly tricky and sticky in my family because I can't be in three places at the same time. And it is extremely challenging. But when it goes right, oh, it's lovely. I had a family reunion where I took both my partners, both my kids, and we shocked the hell out of everybody showing up as a family unit. But honestly, our little pollicle got a lot of joy out of it, even with all the shocked faces. Because we had family members, Comptured goes, good for you. Good for you. I love this for you. There was a lot of support that was mixed in that was extremely validating. And I will say I am really excited because a dear friend of mine is getting married to CIA this year. And I got my first plus two wedding invitation. Oh, I love that for you. Is that awesome? It is awesome. The weird thing is the wedding date is actually my anniversary. So it'll be my 11th anniversary with my husband and I'll be going to a wedding with both of my partners. And that is really... I remember that date 11 years ago. That's right. That's right. You were at my wedding. I think it's I think it I think when people see you happy in your element when hinging is working and your multiple relationships are working and on display people see it and they they don't and I think that people are less apprehensive or bias or afraid of polyamory when they're like wow this is really working but when the only example they have is of one partner a butt head and another partner being great or or they they only watch you know my multiple wives on TLC or whatever the hell is called that's where their fear tends to come from but like at your situation when people saw you they're like this is awesome this is awesome I really love those joy moments where things are just normal and things feel normal and everything feels great right like there's a lot of opportunity for that when you're showing up with your partner or you tell for the first time that you have a different partner or you show up with, you know, a boyfriend or something like that. And it doesn't have to be a kitchen table, just showing up with someone else and they're like, this is my other partner. And somebody's just like, yeah, good for you. I was at a music festival between my two guys and I was just laying there and a lady who was selling cookies. And she walked by and she goes, she goes, oh, look at this cozy little scene. And it was me, my two guys and then my good friend. She's like, she's like, who are all these lovely people? And I'm like, this is my husband, this is my boyfriend and this is my great friend. And she goes, good for you. Like she was just so thrilled for us to just be there and be happy and be in love. And I think that's why I work so hard to show up as if everything is normal because it feels normal to me. And I'm hoping that people will see the joy and just, you know, feel that compersion, feel that vicarious joy that you can get from someone else being happy in your presence. And that's especially important when partners are working to get along and working not for themselves, but for your sake or for the sake of the pollicule, right? That is harboring ill will and shit like that, that weighs on your soul and I don't know, like get over it, get on with it. But I think that that's especially true. And your partners have definitely done the work to get along, to be able to be out there and make that a joyful experience, not just for you, but for themselves as well. And so people don't feel bad or distasteful for that. know, there's also times, however, in those situations when partners are not there, when they're a little bit invisible, well, you've got a plus one for the party, as it were. And being able to have a normal conversation about, oh, yeah, this is partner A, but, you know, partner B wanted to be here as well, or partner B, you know, sends their well wishes or whatever it may be. And talking about that person as if they're there, as if they're part of it, so that they're not forgotten to people or not forgotten to your other partner, but most importantly, not forgotten about from you as a person. And making sure that they know that. Like, yes, I'm going to this wedding with partner A. It's because partner A and I know this person. It's not anything to do with you. And Mitch is making sure that they know that they're loved and valued an equitable part of your relationship. I think that that's a big part of the growth that we need to do as in polyamory is making sure our partners are represented and visible to not only one another so that that's obvious, but also the world around us. It's not uncommon for me to talk about that at work. It's not uncommon for me to talk about that amongst my family. It's not uncommon for me to talk about that, my friends. I would imagine I'm past the age of getting wedding invitations, but if I get more wedding invitations, I'm sure that there'll be enough plus twos that I'll make me very happy. And so it's just important to make sure that in this joy, in this growth, that everybody is seen, everybody is understood, and everybody is happy. Because when it works, man, it is so awesome. Like, you feel so good when you're like living the idealized, idyllic life of polyamory. Yeah. It doesn't happen that way all the time, right? Nobody's life, it's perfect all the time. But I will agree that, you know, when you're having more good days than bad and it is like working and things are running smoothly, enjoy those times when they do happen. Because, yes, there's going to be a road bump here and there. Someone might get sick. Someone might have a breakup on their end. Someone might go through some stuff. But that foundation that you're building when things are going well and all of these tools that we help you put into practice is going to serve you really well. You're going to thrive independently. me as a hinge, as well as with all of your partners. And that is something really, really worth figuring out and navigating and bringing into your life. Hey there, amazing human. Just a quick pause to say thank you for tuning in to the Poly Pathways podcast. Whether you're here for your first episode or you've been along this polyamorous journey from the start, we see you. We appreciate you. And we're so glad you're here. If you're loving this conversation, we've got a little request. Don't keep all this polyamory goodness to yourself. Hit that subscribe button or follow button wherever you're listening right now, so that you don't miss an episode, and then share this podcast with a friend. Whether it's the deep dives, practical tips, or little doses of relationship realness, there's plenty more to come, and we don't want you to miss a thing. And hey, let's keep this conversation going. Follow us on social media at Poly Pathways podcast wherever you like to social. That's where the magic happens between episodes. Updates, behind the scene moments, and yes, the occasional meme, because let's face it, polyamory is definitely meme worthy. Your support through subscribing, following, and sharing is the best way to make it possible for us to keep creating content for this incredible community. So thank you. You're the reason this podcast exists. All right. Let's get back to the the episode. In this episode, we talked a lot about the joys and the struggles and the happinesses of being a hinge. And being a hinge certainly requires a lot of work that needs to be done, but that work comes with great reward and great benefit. And it's really no different than the work that you put into a singular relationship. It's just now you have a different dynamic that you need to work in. So absolutely, remember to be supportive and compassionate for yourself as a hinge. You're going to do well, you're going to make mistakes, you're going to struggle, but the value of the relationship long term is what you're working towards, not the temporary hiccups that sent you in a panic and maybe out the door. Also, if you have a partner that's a hinge, remembering that they have a lot of work to do too and not making that work about the other partner, but making that work about just maintaining multiple relationships. Remember that conflict is going to happen, but that conflict, again, is not forever. When this works, it is the pinnacle of unlimited love. I got a couple of questions for you. I want you to think about, add some comments to this podcast or share them on social media with us and let us know. But what is being a hinge look like in your world, in your pollucle? We're curious about that because this is our experience, but we want to know what your experience is. And if you aren't a hinge and maybe you're just in a relationship with somebody has multiple relationships right now, how might you support and empathize? with your hinge partner in the work that they're doing. As Kat mentioned earlier, we don't always talk about these unspoken dynamics of being a hinge partner. But friends, we've enjoyed so much talking about our hinge experience with you. We want to hear about yours. Leave a comment, subscribe, share it with your hinge partner. Let them know that you're thinking about that person and what they have to go through. And we'll catch you in the next episode. Thank you for listening. If you enjoyed this episode, consider subscribing and follow us at Polly Pathways podcast on all the social medias that you enjoy.
